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Decouple...

Saudi Arabia burns nearly one million barrels of oil per day to keep its lights on, yet it has cheaper and faster ways to replace this than by building large nuclear reactors. So why is the Kingdom pushing so hard for a civil nuclear deal? This episode walks through the strategic logic that has animated Riyadh’s nuclear ambitions for more than a decade. The answer lies in prestige, industrial capacity, and the latent fuel cycle capabilities that come with a power reactor programme, all set against the backdrop of regional tension with Iran. We look closely at the recent Washington announcement that United States Saudi 123 talks have been “concluded,” the unresolved fight over enrichment rights, and the geopolitical pressure being applied to South Korea to align its nuclear exports with American interests. From the legacy of the Quincy pact to the rivalry between Westinghouse and KEPCO, this conversation unpacks how a simple reactor tender has become one of the most consequential energy and security decisions in the Gulf. Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media

In this episode, Chris Keefer speaks with Hadron Energy founder Samuel Gibson, the twenty four year old entrepreneur pursuing a ten megawatt integral pressurized water microreactor through a one point two billion dollar business combination with GigCapital7. Gibson outlines why he believes light water is the fastest licensing path, how he assembled a veteran nuclear team, and why Hadron shifted from a one megawatt concept to a ten megawatt design built around LEU plus fuel, modular plant layouts, and air cooled decay heat removal. Keefer presses on the harder questions: whether factory fabrication can overcome the fixed civil works and regulatory burdens that have crippled previous SMR efforts like NuScale and mPower, what off the shelf really means in a hollowed out US supply chain, and how long refueling cycles, fuel qualification, and decommissioning challenges scale at microreactor size. The conversation becomes a broader test case for whether startup optimism can meaningfully confront the industrial, economic, and physics grounded constraints that define real world nuclear deployment. Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media

Fan favourite, James Krellenstein, returns for a deep dive into the AP1000. We walk through how its conservative nuclear steam supply system is built from proven Westinghouse and Combustion Engineering lineage, and where its true innovation lies, in a radically passive safety architecture that removes the traditional race against diesel generators during LOCAs and station blackouts. From core makeup tanks and automatic depressurization to canned pumps, the in containment refueling water storage tank, the passive residual heat removal system and a containment that behaves like a heat exchanger, James explains how the AP1000 achieves passive safety and demonstrates the dynamism of the U.S Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This is an unvarnished look at a remarkable nuclear engineering achievement. Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media

In late October, amid the choreography of President Trump’s visit to Tokyo, two vast and curiously intertwined announcements were made: an $80 billion strategic partnership between the U.S. government and Westinghouse Electric Company, and a $550 billion investment framework between the United States and Japan. This episode of Decouple, hosted by AJ Camacho of Politico and E&E News, brought together Michael Seely, Yuri Humber and Chris Keefer this time in the guest seat to discuss the implications of this deal for the United States, Japan and Canada. Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media

This week on Decouple, I sit down with Aleksey Rezvoi, a veteran maritime nuclear engineer who began his career in the Soviet Union designing third- and fourth-generation submarine and icebreaker reactors before later working in the U.S. nuclear sector. We explore the hidden history and living reality of Russia’s civilian nuclear fleet—a line that began with the icebreaker Lenin in 1959 and continues today with the RITM-200, the world’s only serially produced small modular reactor. From Arctic logistics and reactor design philosophy to advanced fuels and industrial ecosystems, Rezvoi offers a rare insider’s view of what the West misses when it talks about “maritime nuclear.” Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media

This week, I sit back down with François Morin in his third appearance on the show. François is the World Nuclear Association’s point person on China. He works and travels inside China, speaks fluent Mandarin, and spends time at the conventional and advanced reactor sites that the rest of us argue about on Twitter. We cover how quickly China is really building nuclear power compared to the heyday of the French Mesmer plan, how that compares to Chinese coal and gas deployment, why Chinese nuclear is still mostly coastal, and the use case, build times and performance of the so-called “advanced reactors” that China is operating while Western startups are still in the powerpoint phase pitching to investors. Watch the full conversation on YouTube. Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media

This week on Decouple, I sit down with Dan Wang, a research fellow at Stanford’s Hoover History Lab and author of "Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future." We trace how China became an “engineering state” while America turned into a “lawyerly society,” and what that means for infrastructure, energy, industry, birthrates, social security, and human lives. From Guizhou’s skyways to Jane Jacobs’ shadow over North American cities, Wang shows the upside of abundant state capacity and the dark side of excessive control. Buy Breakneck: https://danwang.co/breakneck/ Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 1:57 Engineering State vs. Lawyerly Society; building the physical, the economy, and the “human soul.” 5:15 How the archetypes formed: Mao’s poet’s rule, Deng’s engineers; America’s pivot post-1960s (Carson, Jacobs, Nader). 14:10 On-the-ground China: HSR, bridges, airports—even in poor provinces. 20:50 Thin welfare state, regressive taxes; socialist words, conservative instincts. 24:26 Who allocates capital in China, and how discretion works. 26:00 One-child policy: targets, “persuasion groups,” sterilisations, missing girls. 37:00 Western ideas met an open door; fertility was already falling. 43:40 Elite precarity: salary caps, halted IPOs; contrast with American impunity. 49:10 Overproduction as strategy; strengths and gaps of the engineering state.

This week, we zoom out to the broader intellectual themes that shaped Decouple’s origins five years ago. I’m joined by Jesse Ausubel, a visionary thought leader in sustainability and biodiversity research and the Director of the Program for the Human Environment at The Rockefeller University in New York City. In his long career, Ausubel pioneered the modern study of decarbonization and dematerialization in the late 1980s and early 1990s, introducing concepts that became foundational to environmental thinking. In this conversation, Ausubel shows how the simple framework of logistic S-curves can illuminate fundamental trends across complex systems, including, importantly, energy systems. Through this lens, we discuss the “environmental trifecta” of land-sparing, decarbonization, and dematerialization, and we explore whether apparent counter-trends challenge Ausubel’s framework or indeed support it. Suffusing the interview is Ausubel’s belief in the wisdom of long-term thinking and objectivity: simple, insightful frameworks are a starting point for admitting much-needed complexity into our worldviews. Join us in this rare examination of the mental models that claim to predict our environmental future. Join us in this rare examination of the mental models that claim to predict our environmental future. Watch Ausubel's talk at the 2024 Breakthrough Dialogue: https://youtu.be/y7koNGOQGlc Listen to Decouple on: • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6PNr3ml8nEQotWWavE9kQz • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decouple/id1516526694?uo=4 • Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1516526694/decouple • Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/ehbfrn44 • RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/23775178/podcast/rss Website: https://www.decouple.media Chapters 00:00 Introduction — Decoupling and the roots of eco-modernism 05:56 Marchetti’s “energy islands” and the birth of hydrogen dreams 10:16 The S-curve view of history — fuels as epidemics of innovation 12:21 The hydrogen arc — from hay to methane to the far horizon 20:48 China’s energy bases and the logic of continental super-grids 28:52 Wind, solar, and the physics of land use 30:10 Why decarbonization stalled in the 1970s 40:12 “Chickens and gallium” — tracking real dematerialization 52:52 Battery skepticism and curiosity about micro-/nuclear batteries